Does anyone known where to find info on the Model Numbers that Holton used ex: 230, 232, 566, 666, etc. And how to correctly identify model number with model type?

• Sample Modelling Horns

Was the 232 a Revelation or a Stratodyne. What was the Model 566 and 666 were they both Collegiate model types?Model Types, Years and Serial Numbers:. Holton - Chicago Years:1915-1918 Serials: 1-2000. Holton - Elkhorn Years:1918-1925 Serials: 1201-18499.

Holton - Rudy Weidoeft Years:1925-1932 Serials: 0. Holton - Revelation Years:1925-1980 Serials: 35. Holton - Collegiate Years: 1932-1979 Serials: 135.

Sample Modelling Horns

Holton - Stratodyne Years:1948-1958 Serials: 199source:Does anyone have a list like the above list for model numbers, years, etc.? Aside from the early models (Beauforts and early Revelations) without a model number, the number will be stamped right above the serial number. We then correlate those with old ads in many cases (i.e., the 234/Stratodyne). The 566/666 (altos) and 576 (tenors) were indeed Collegiates-they will have a large 'Collegiate' engraving on the bell. There were older Collegiates too, very similar to the 'Revelations' (Revelations are usually called 'Elkhorns' by non Holton folks, as that's all that's really engraved on them, other than a design.) Those Collegiates will also be clearly marked by engraving on the bell. A lot of the numbered models were just identified by their number, as far as I know, aside from the kinda rare 400-series horns (the alto is a 465, the Bari is a 480) which did have a name, the 'Ideal'. Their engraving was sometimes a large globe.

You don't see a lot of those.Here's a 666-pretty rare-even with the fancy silver and copper metal, still marked 'Collegiate'Other weird and rare models: Reso-tones-search the Holton section-some good info and pics in there. Jazzbug has a 214 Tenor, and there's pics of a couple 204 altos. These are very ornate and have a ring around the bell edge.Note: there seems to be a lot of overlap in some models. For example, 232 (right side bell keys) and 233 (left side bell keys) were apparently were made at the same time. I think the Resotones were also made at the same time as 203/213/215s (Revelations when they gained model numbers).I haven't seen a list as you have laid out, but member LaPorte posted an accurate serial number list. The serial numbers, combined with pics of specific horns and their respective numbers (especially in the 'Modern Vintage Holton' thread give a pretty good idea when theses horns were made.I haven't see any numerical designation for Rudy Wiedoefts, but Rudy's (unless transitional models) are also clearly engraved as such. Those catalogs on saxophone.org were great to see.

(Now I want a 244 Stratodyne Tenor and 271 Bari more than ever!)Also, there are more Baris-I've seen (and uploaded) pics of a 274, and I think also a 273.Lastly the 204 alto and 214 Tenor were 'Resotones'-extremely fancy and premium early hornsThank you for the additional information.Geauxsax, I am assuming the Baritone 273 and 274 are Revelation's can you confirm this please? I have never heard of a Holton Resotone do you know what years they were made and if they are stencils like the Beaufort Models? I know from the catalogs that the 214 is actual a Revelation Baritone would Holton have used the same number on two different saxophones? Pages 8 and 9 of the 'Modern Vintage Holtons' thread have 270, 273, and 274 baris. There's a 480 (460?) 'Ideal' Bari in there somewhere as well.The 4XX series was termed the 'Ideal' Not sure if the other ones were Revelations or not-it was a generic term used by Holton for most of their saxes-engraved occasionally, but more often not.Lastly, I've never seen model numbers on any C melodies or sopranos. They may have carried internal numeric designations at the company and in catalogs, but I think both types died out right around the time Holton started stamping model numbers near the serial numbers. I'm not sure all those model numbers listed were used-no proof, just a hunch.Here's a good link on Resotones.

Note some confusion as Jazzbug originally thought the stamp was 244 instead of 214.Geauxsax, all the model numbers I listed with the exception of the Resotone 204 Alto, and the Baritones 273, 274, and 480 that you provided came from the Holton catalogs and price lists found at. Would Holton list model numbers in their catalogs and price lists and then not actually use them? That would make tracking models very confusing.Ok, I have three new questions:Did Holton actual repeat model numbers with the model 214 was it used for the Res-o-tone Tenor as well as a the Revelation Baritone?Did Holton stamp the model number on ever saxophone produced that had a model number assigned in a catalog or price list?Did Holton list model numbers in their catalogs and price lists and then not actually sell these models to the public?At the moment these are questions that I am not sure how to find the answers too. Any ideas on how to resolve these questions? Geauxsax, all the model numbers I listed with the exception of the Resotone 204 Alto, and the Baritones 273, 274, and 480 that you provided came from the Holton catalogs and price lists found at. Would Holton list model numbers in their catalogs and price lists and then not actually use them?

That would make tracking models very confusing.Ok, I have three new questions:Did Holton actual repeat model numbers with the model 214 was it used for the Res-o-tone Tenor as well as a the Revelation Baritone?Did Holton stamp the model number on ever saxophone produced that had a model number assigned in a catalog or price list?Did Holton list model numbers in their catalogs and price lists and then not actually sell these models to the public?At the moment these are questions that I am not sure how to find the answers too. Any ideas on how to resolve these questions?Holton made many horns without model numbers-the cut off seems to be in the early 1930s. For example, my Revelation Tenor doesn't have a model number stamped, nor does it even say Revelation (just the usual floral design and Elkhorn). Also, I've never seen or heard of a Rudy, or any soprano or C-Melody carrying a model number. They were simply made before Holton started stamping them, best I can tell. There may have been a 214 Baritone-maybe it was the unstamped Revelation bari that preceded the 215. If that's the case, then they recycled the number.

In my mind, if they weren't stamped, then I don't refer to them by model number. Really, the only possibilities before numbers anyway were Revelations, Collegiates, Rudy Wiedoefts, and earlier Beauforts from what I know, with the term Revelation blanketing nearly the entire line.My guess is that before Holton started stamping the numbers, they were just internal company designations, or for catalog ordering purposes. It also wouldn't surprise me if the catalogs had some wrong, or listed numbers that never actually got built.

Hi SOTW Members,I'd like to share a COMPLETE list of all Yamaha Saxophone model numbers with you.I'm actually a trumpet player by trade and got bored one day so I decided to compile a complete list of all of the Yamaha trumpet models as it seemed that it hadn't been done before (or recently). Yamaha seemed to list most models, but they were spread across all of their various international websites and not all located in one location. It also quickly became apparent that different sections of the various international Yamaha organisations had different ideas about when certain models were introduced and discontinued. In addition to that there were some models that Yamaha didn't officially list although they certainly existed, not to mention rare limited edition models only ever offered in Japan.

After completing the Trumpet model list I have since gone on and completed a list for Trombones, French Horns, Flutes and now Saxophones.You will see in the list that I try to include at least 2 official Yamaha verification sources for each model, as well as a catalog reference. At the bottom of the list are links to the various Sax related catalogs I have as reference so far. As time permits I will be filling in all of the specific model specifications and details.For the other instruments I have cataloged so far I have also created a database of Yamaha serial numbers.

Yamaha seems to be a bit tight lipped about their serial numbers in general. You can email them at the US Band and Orchestral Division for a date of manufacture for a particular serial but before about 1982 not much is know to them. (They are actually now following these lists and updating their own model/discontinued model lists and links). I will shortly set up a Serial Number Database for the Yamaha Saxophone also. I'm an instrument nerd so am more than happy to do it just for fun or interest sake.If this list has any errors, typing mistakes, omissions or a new model is released feel free to contact me and I will endeavor to add or correct those details. Just please be kind, as I am a trumpet player after all.SaxophoneFluteTrumpetTromboneFrench HornFeel free to join me on FaceBook, just search for my FaceBook page 'YamahaCollector'.I'm also very appreciative of pdf scans of any Yamaha related marketing material, brochures, catalogs, advertising and even instrument owners manuals. I'm building a back catalog to use as reference for ALL yamaha wind/brass/orchestral instruments, and any I have I am happy to share.

I REALLY like hard paper copies of these items but in this day and age I'm more than happy with pdf scans. I can be emailed at:CheersYamahaCollector. What is your ultimate objective in compiling your database of Yamaha instrument serial numbers? In my case, as the owner of a YTS-61, I can think of several disadvantages, but no advantages, to having the specific serial number and description of my horn listed on a public website.

I believe my 61 was built in the 1970s. I don't know the original purchase date. Would I ever learn anything more precise than that from your data analytics (if any)? I looked at your sax serial number list.

There are no build dates (not even a column for build dates) and very, very few original purchase dates. Less than half the horns have a used purchase date. What would be the impact of my adding my YTS-61 to that list? How would it help you? How would it help me? Hi LostConn,Some valid thoughts there.I know there are people out there that are paranoid about their serial numbers being public. Maybe the Chinese will rip off you serial and make many copies or someone else might try to over stamp a stolen instrument with yours.

Who knows but in the end it is an instrument worth maybe a few thousand dollars and there are plenty of them out there to buy used if someone wants one. Generally instruments are not in the same league of say vintage Ferraris, where less honest people may wish to pass off a fake or replica as an original using someone else's chassis number. What else is a public serial number going to do to a vintage instrument?

Will potential purchasers somewhere down the line actually know how old your instrument is when you try to sell it? Will the fact that it will be proven that it WASN'T John Coltrane's personal horn by knowing the serial. As far as the vintage car analogies go, there is now a growing trend of making chassis/VIN's public to leave a traceable and documents ownership line and history. Each to their own I guess.As far as what I hope to achieve.Yamaha has made many clear statements that their own records of build dates / production figures etc do not go earlier than about 1982 for what ever reason.

Even the specs for instruments for instruments before then have been lifted from catalogs, not from build sheet records. Yes, you can contact Yamaha for models released / sold after 1982 for a build date or sale date, and they will provide an answer as to the exact model and date etc. So my aim is to progressively collect enough samples to:1. Be able to roughly date an instrument by its serial and place in the list.2. Identify unusual / unknown regional / custom models3. Begin to establish patterns for the issue of serials.4. Identify non-published inter model production changes by serial / date (ie: changes of logos, pad type, case type etc)With regards to the allocation of serial numbers there are many arguments whether Yamaha has issued serials1.

In groups depending on model/ family series / and location of manufacture.Personally, observing my trumpet serial list, I am starting to see patterns quite clearly to suggest the 3rd pattern suggested above.I guess the last thing to cover is build date VS purchase date. Which would be the most useful to people? What have other manufacturers supplied? Is a build date the COMMENCEMENT of building, ie: the day the body was initially press or formed?, or is the COMPLETION date the build date? And how long does it take from commencement to completion?

Is the SALE date the day it was sold from factory to retail?, or from retail to 1st user? As I'm sure you know, some horns are sold by the retailer even before they take delivery of them, whilst others may sit in the back storage room of a retailer (or wholesaler) for many years or decades as they fall from favor or are replaced by newer models, only being sold years later as New Old Stock.For ALL of the reasons above, I have left the information collected in my serial database fairly open ended so people can choose to leave as much or as little as they feel comfortable doing. The information collected on the saxophone list so far is still in its infancy with regards to numbers compared to several thousand on the trumpet list.I hope you would share your model / serial on the list but if you choose not too that's fine too. Enjoying playing is the end game anyway.CheersYamahaCollector.